Forge Ahead in the Next Version Update! (04/18/2014)

[CoreyX]

One of the problems with the iLVL system is that FFXI's community loves catch-22's. Want 119 items? Sorry, you need 119 gear to get 119 gear. MNKs need Oaxtiur to be invited to Tojil, etc. etc. No one will invite you unless you already have the stuff from the events you're trying to do, essentially, for the most part. That's just how FFXI's community works, why help the 117 guy do 119 content and get his 119 gear when it'll be easier and safer and faster to get people that are already 119? It makes it a self-perpetuating cycle where the rich get richer and the people left behind are screwed. Which is why it makes sense SE has continued to add alternatives, such as the Oboro weapons, to help people bridge the gap and catch up

[Fake]

you know what, fuck it, just spit out whatever you want, i donz ze care, game is done anyway

If you genuinely felt that you wouldn't be here posting in the FFXI section on BG

[arus2001]

One of the problems with the iLVL system is that FFXI's community loves catch-22's. Want 119 items? Sorry, you need 119 gear to get 119 gear. MNKs need Oaxtiur to be invited to Tojil, etc. etc. No one will invite you unless you already have the stuff from the events you're trying to do, essentially, for the most part. That's just how FFXI's community works, why help the 117 guy do 119 content and get his 119 gear when it'll be easier and safer and faster to get people that are already 119? It makes it a self-perpetuating cycle where the rich get richer and the people left behind are screwed. Which is why it makes sense SE has continued to add alternatives, such as the Oboro weapons, to help people bridge the gap and catch up

I dunno, this feels like how all MMOs work when it comes to content you can't solo or at least chip away toward with in-game currency. Too many chiefs, not enough indians or something.

[dasva]

The game was done in 2007, then it was done in jan 2009 when hundreds of top tier players across all servers were banned for salvage duping, with quotes of "this game wont survive without us", then it was done with WotG, then it was done with Abyssea...

I even remember people saying it was done back in 05.... game has more lives than cat

[Limlight]

I even remember people saying it was done back in 05.... game has more lives than cat

had to quote this. thanks for the laugh while i'm at work.

[PSOfanatic]

I mean...if you think about it, each **** up by SE has had a negative effect on server populations. So maybe the game isn't "Done" but with each mistake they make the server populations continue to dwindle down to circle jerk LS. I see these groups of 6 people that magically all can log on the exact same time everyday - Whether they be high school kids, college kids, or live with mommy and daddy kids.

People can rage all they want but when people come back to the game and realize they can't catch up due to most of the reasons already said...people are just going to quit.

I love the game but month by month...it just gets worse population wise. A lot of people who missed out on delve, were left in a kind of limbo. Oboro helped close the gap but you still have people that want the easy win with people who already have the clears.

[Ihina]

One of the problems with the iLVL system is that FFXI's community loves catch-22's. Want 119 items? Sorry, you need 119 gear to get 119 gear. MNKs need Oaxtiur to be invited to Tojil, etc. etc. No one will invite you unless you already have the stuff from the events you're trying to do, essentially, for the most part. That's just how FFXI's community works, why help the 117 guy do 119 content and get his 119 gear when it'll be easier and safer and faster to get people that are already 119? It makes it a self-perpetuating cycle where the rich get richer and the people left behind are screwed. Which is why it makes sense SE has continued to add alternatives, such as the Oboro weapons, to help people bridge the gap and catch up

This post is a pretty big insult to each and every person who dragged themselves, kicking and screaming, through delve the first time when we were all decks out in 113-115 gear. It isn't a system where the rich gets richer/etc because we all started on approximately the same level. My shell only had about 4-5 people in it and at the time, only 2-3 of them were decent players. Getting that first Tojil clear was the last time I felt a sense of accomplishment in this game and will probably be the last time unless SE brings back content that not everyone can do. Delve2 has been nothing but a continuation of this game on easy mode and a giant disappointment.

[shepardG]

This post is a pretty big insult to each and every person who dragged themselves, kicking and screaming, through delve the first time when we were all decks out in 113-115 gear. It isn't a system where the rich gets richer/etc because we all started on approximately the same level. My shell only had about 4-5 people in it and at the time, only 2-3 of them were decent players. Getting that first Tojil clear was the last time I felt a sense of accomplishment in this game and will probably be the last time unless SE brings back content that not everyone can do. Delve2 has been nothing but a continuation of this game on easy mode and a giant disappointment.

the first delves had no item level gear didn't they? It was straight Voidwatch/neo nyzul i thought? er... well i guess, upgraded 110 delve gear to actually clear the bosses.... yeah fair enough.

[Prothescar]

If you did tojil in 113/115 gear, you had already missed the train for finishing it when it was "hard". by then, the only difference between delve1 and delve2 was that the bosses had TP moves that could completely fuck you over if you didn't bring an exact setup or a SCH to stun them. hardly indicative of difficulty, more indicative of poor boss design.

[Damane]

If you did tojil in 113/115 gear, you had already missed the train for finishing it when it was "hard". by then, the only difference between delve1 and delve2 was that the bosses had TP moves that could completely fuck you over if you didn't bring an exact setup or a SCH to stun them. hardly indicative of difficulty, more indicative of poor boss design.

actually disagree, Tojil had a pritty hefty gear check pre ilvl stat vomits and +skill on weapons. you could bring 2 very excellent stunners, but if your frontline, the melees failed to damage it quick enough in time you would run into stun resists. first tojil kill without any ilvl 119 handtohand involved usually useing all offensive 2 hours with a reset (wildcard) and no screw ups. Everyone had to be on their balls, backline, frontline support. I wouldnt call that an easy fight. But it got substantionally easier and managable once all your mnks had their ilvl 119 weapon. Imho Legion was easier and more forgiving with good stunners then Tojil was, if you didnt have excellent backline and frontlines (but thats also partially due to unnerfed embrava and/or PD). The first tojil kill withotu any ilvl 119 weapon felt indeed overwhelming.
Even your backline and support underwent a gearcheck during delve 1.0. I was never so glad to have done previously 6/8 m.acc magian trial staves like at that time (had them pre adoulin).

EDIT: just read you said 115/113 gear, yeah when skirmish gear was introduced delve 1.0 was substantionally more easy then it was on release.

[Prothescar]

except, by the time we had ilvl113 and 115 gear, we also had skill on weapons and stat vomit, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. the hardest part was always about finding competent players, the fights themselves weren't difficult if properly prepared for.

as a member of a linkshell that defeated all three of the delve megabosses before skill was added to weapons, I can honestly say that unless you fought them then, the fights were all about player competency and proper setup rather than the encounters being extremely difficult and well designed. Both Delve1 and Delve2 are the same in the fact that they're not very well thought out, and they both share the same level of "difficulty" for a prepared and knowledgeable group. The only difference is, you're lowering the required variables by not needing 18 people and stunners for Delve2.

[Damane]

the first delves had no item level gear didn't they? It was straight Voidwatch/neo nyzul i thought? er... well i guess, upgraded 110 delve gear to actually clear the bosses.... yeah fair enough.

this is correct. mind you the lvl 110 delve gear also didnt have any stat vomits on it and some mage delve 1.0 gear didnt have haste on them (that also came with ivomit). you pretty much had to be decked out from pre adoulin stuff and some 110 delve gear/weapon to stand a chance against tojil.

[Damane]

except, by the time we had ilvl113 and 115 gear, we also had skill on weapons and stat vomit, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. the hardest part was always about finding competent players, the fights themselves weren't difficult if properly prepared for.

as a member of a linkshell that defeated all three of the delve megabosses before skill was added to weapons, I can honestly say that unless you fought them then, the fights were all about player competency and proper setup rather than the encounters being extremely difficult and well designed. Both Delve1 and Delve2 are the same in the fact that they're not very well thought out, and they both share the same level of "difficulty" for a prepared and knowledgeable group. The only difference is, you're lowering the required variables by not needing 18 people and stunners for Delve2.

I added an Edit, i saw you were talking about 113/115 gear, so I agree with you on this point.

Still delve 1.0 was hard and demanding pre ilvl stat vomits (as said up). but not impossible. We defeated delve bosses pre stat vomits and skill addition too. I still found it to be a demanding/hard fight, but not unfair, if you were properly geared/prepared. A bit luck involved on your first kill with wildcard resets on melees. The general setup was MNK MNK DRG COR BRD WHM, MNK MNK DRK COR BRD WHM, GEO GEO SCH SCH BRD RDM. Rotate BRD and cor, but everyone knows how it went back then.

and yes the difficulty/gear gap betwen delve 1.0 and delve 2.0 is nowhere as big as it was between non adoulin endgame stuff vs delve 1.0, especially now that beads can be farmed pretty easy as compared to delve 1.0

[Ihina]

I might have misspoken, since I was going off the top of my head and didn't look it up. I cleared Tojil before the massive +skill was put on the weapons, so delve1 gear was lv110 and delve1 weapons was lv113.

[Draylo]

So much bitching in almost every thread, don't you people get tired of it? Either play the game or don't, jesus.

[Xantavia]

This post is a pretty big insult to each and every person who dragged themselves, kicking and screaming, through delve the first time when we were all decks out in 113-115 gear. It isn't a system where the rich gets richer/etc because we all started on approximately the same level. My shell only had about 4-5 people in it and at the time, only 2-3 of them were decent players. Getting that first Tojil clear was the last time I felt a sense of accomplishment in this game and will probably be the last time unless SE brings back content that not everyone can do. Delve2 has been nothing but a continuation of this game on easy mode and a giant disappointment.

And I'm sure that for every person that was dragged through delve the first time, there are 3 other people who haven't done it. And now good luck trying to get those wins. If you miss the initial rush, it often feels like you are screwed. Other than 2 or 3 pieces of AF (upgraded by buying pages with sparks), all of my ilvl stuff is RoE gear. The fights have been around long enough that nobody wants someone who hasn't done it before. And I'm not about to try a start a shout group for an event I know nothing about. I personally don't care if there are fights that I can't win. What does bother me is the feeling of not even being allowed to experience the fights since I didn't dive in at day 1.

[Fwahm]

Start a shout group anyway. The people who got wins first didn't get those wins because they refused to organize content they knew nothing about. They went in, learned the area, and managed to eventually beat it.

You have a huge advantage over them, with 117 weapons and tons of information about the zones online. If it takes multiple tries, so be it. If you need to write down who are good players, and who suck, then so be it. Delve isn't impossible for players without 119 gear.

[Ihina]

And I'm sure that for every person that was dragged through delve the first time, there are 3 other people who haven't done it. And now good luck trying to get those wins. If you miss the initial rush, it often feels like you are screwed. Other than 2 or 3 pieces of AF (upgraded by buying pages with sparks), all of my ilvl stuff is RoE gear. The fights have been around long enough that nobody wants someone who hasn't done it before. And I'm not about to try a start a shout group for an event I know nothing about. I personally don't care if there are fights that I can't win. What does bother me is the feeling of not even being allowed to experience the fights since I didn't dive in at day 1.

It is way easier now compared to when the first wave of people got their clears. There really is no excuse anymore.

[Hitou]

It really depends on your server and playtime. Some people can shout for pick-ups, get competent players, and get wins. Others get mouth-breathers that think they know better than the simplest instructions you give them. Those groups wipe before clearing T4. Delve isn't hard, nothing in this game has ever been hard, I guess you could argue AV and PW but people hated those guys. The only thing that's ever been hard is finding people that don't drool out of both sides of their mouths.

I've made several pick-up groups for Delve and they've all failed for one reason or another. I've also joined shouts where the run goes so smoothly I'm left in awe that anyone could possibly screw up so badly. But those runs are few and far between.

So, I'm not advocating everything be nerfed but I also wouldn't really care if it was. Continue to whine that the game is too easy or too hard, the rest of us will just face-plam.

[Ophannus]

Outside of unlucky back to back "fuck you" TP moves, most battles are genuinely not too difficult with a decent setup and gear. Of course the hardest of the hard...will be annoying unless you exploit crap like stun locking and overpowered job/weapon combos like Embrava/Ragnardrks in Mul or ADL.

Players are the biggest cockblock most of the time. I made a PUG for Tenzen v2. Was a great setup. Had a relic, 4song brd, 99 empyrean mnks, and a good COR with a ranged set. The PLD was the only PLD I could find for hours. Why bring a Ple you ask? Because after an hour of shouting I got no tells and was @5. This guy had mnk but no /nin so o figured he'd be better off on PLD. So we buff and get rdy to enter and he comes Tenzen the second he loads into the battlefield and locks out like 2 people and shows no remorse, he was like wtf happened. Man I hate mouth breathers.